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Wing Chun Attitude

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Old 11-16-2012, 07:47 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Default Re: Wing Chun Attitude

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Originally Posted by LittleJimmy View Post
Yes, I get off on a rant sometimes. The bottom line I was trying to make was that you need to differentiate sports from combat arts. MMA is very entertaining but no combat art. Lots of martial arts could be classified as combat, provided they teach you to win at any cost.
Like any popular martial art, MMA has a lot of armchair ninjas, people who train casually, and an exponentially increasing number of McDojos.

Competitive MMA does teach you to win at any cost. The referees are there to protect the other guy, not you. You focus on knocking him out, choking him, bending his arms and legs, and so on until the referees tell you to stop. Anything less will make you lose the match. How is that different from how you train?

If people trained it for the street instead of the cage, MMA would look a lot like Krav Maga.

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Originally Posted by LittleJimmy View Post
We don't really worry too much about liability. Texas has VERY liberal definitions when it comes to defending yourself. I understand it is not the same in all states. The saying goes "I would rather be carried by 12 than 6" meaning that I'll take my chances with a jury instead of pallbearers. If someone has no control over their actions and is stupid enough to attack my family, they deserve the wrath they get, not an arm bar. It's no crime to put down an rabid animal.
I thought I said this, an arm bar is an arm break if you don't stop short. If the guy is holding a knife, that's deadly force and I wouldn't hesitate to break his arm to get it away from him.

Yes it can be a crime to "put down a rabid animal", even in Texas.
Texas Gunman Guilty of Murder in Stand Your Ground Trial | Lawyers.com - JDSupra
Jury gives murder conviction to League City man who claimed self-defense in shooting | khou.com Houston

Texas doesn't require you to retreat, that's already controversial enough, but the burden will still be on you to prove that:
  • You were not the attacker
  • The attacker didn't change his mind and stop attacking (or you are then the attacker)
  • You could not have warded off your attacker without killing or seriously injuring him

The choice is rarely prison or morgue. In America:
  • 80% of gunshot victims survive
  • a half of knife attacks are not even reported
  • 80% of attacks are by unarmed attackers

So a more likely choice is between years in prison or weeks at the hospital. With reasonable use of force, you may not even have to choose.
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Old 11-17-2012, 09:27 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Exclamation Re: Wing Chun Attitude

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Originally Posted by LittleJimmy View Post
In response to lots of posts about Wing Chung being ineffective in MMA ring:

I've been in a Wing Chun School for 2 years now. I'm not an expert by any means. Our school doesn't do drills like lop sau or chi sau. We just train to fight, every class. We've had MMA guys float in and out of the school for some time. Most are looking for a magic bullet to add to their arsenal only to find that most of what we teach, they can't use. We literally have an MMA "Rules" list on the wall. Most of it is where we start teaching in regards to real fighting. Those rules are there to keep you from hurting someone badly. That's our whole purpose. A big part of it is attitude. MMA is a gladiator sport. It's not combat training. REPEAT, It's not combat training. They train to win in a controlled environment with a limited arsenal. They're there to make the promoters money. To do that, they have to be able to come back week after week and fight again. The purpose of our training in Wing Chun, at our school, is to make sure that YOU come back from a fight. Doesn't matter if the other guy is maimed, crippled, blinded, or dead. We deal with quick ways to put down a bigger, stronger opponent, without lots of effort. Save your strength, there may be more than one of them. We have a very short list of escalation. If he touches you, hurt him. If he hurts you, kill him. Concentrate on eyes, throat and groin. Use all of the weapons around you. We train with traditional weapons also, guns, knives, clubs, staff, just about every week. If you are really training for a street brawl where only one of you will go home, wouldn't you rather train with that goal in mind. I hear lots of MMA guys say they could step it up in a real fight but history shows, you fight like you train. We accept all challenges, any day of the week. We've had several wrestlers come in. You tell them, don't stop until sifu tells you it's over. Inevitably though, if they happen to get you pinned, a quick tap on their leg gets them to let go long enough for me to punch them in the face. Their training tells them to stop when the other guy submits. We don't stop until you're unconscious or dead. Boxers will stand there, weaving and bobbing, while you kick their knees or groin. They aren't used to protecting those areas. I hear it all of the time when MMA guys come in to challenge. We tell them "Our house, our rules. In our house there are no rules." Every one of them starts screaming "no fair, you can't do that!" as soon as you stick your thumb in their eye or kick their nuts. No one at our school is interested in tournaments, trophies, colored belts, or rankings. There are only 2 types, those that kick ass and those that get their asses kicked. Most of us are trying to get to the "kick ass" side of the line as quickly as possible. We gravitated to that kind of school because we only wanted to learn to fight. Not to compete, not to be ranked, just to be able to win a real "no holds barred" fight. MMA is fun to watch but I would rather be with a WC guy who knows what he's doing in a dark alley if we happen to get jumped. Then you can call your buddies to have a "hide the bodies" party afterwards. There are several other Wing Chun schools in this area. None of them are worth a damn because they don't emphasize the fighting. They work on drills and the form, day in, day out. It's too watered down. They're too worried about getting sued if someone gets hurt. We've had broken ribs, cracked eye socket, broken noses and several concussions since I've been there. We've had several students try to compete in tournaments but were quickly disqualified for excessive violence. We have a couple of "Black Belt" karate guys that have joined too. Most leave frustrated because we don't encourage many kicks. The ones that do stay, learn to keep their feet on the ground most of the time or they get thrown down hard, every time. They're too used to kicking to get points and don't realize how vulnerable it makes them. We don't allow pads or protective clothing, just mouth guards and eye protectors. Most of us don't even wear cups anymore. Teaches you to keep your crotch protected. When you're looking for a school, 1st question "Is this a combat school?" If they say "yes" ask for a list of rules. If there are any, RUN. Go find another school. Bottom line - decide what it is you want out of your training. Is it to compete and get trophies or is it to learn to handle any situation that comes up and know that you can protect yourself and your family. We don't care that we can't use a modified version of WC in the ring. Not our thing. We do sleep better at night knowing that we could take most anyone that tried to hurt us or our loved ones. Best of luck!
Pretty much all bullshit. Wrong. I don't care how liberal Texas is, If you get punched, then proceed to kill the man, you ARE going to Prison. I dare you to argue with that. MMA is going to work on the street. True, they're not gouging each others eyes, but they ARE getting hit full force every single day over and over. If you ask me, that's much more realistic than sticking your finger into someones eye protector. You think MMA fighters never get broken ribs? They do. A lot. They train to keep going until the other guy is FINISHED. Usually comes from a tap, but if they don't get one they are trained to break your limbs and choke you out and make you unable to fight. Your whole argument is about how MMA training isn't realistic. But if you get a shin in the head all the time, you develop a higher pain tolerance. Getting a thumb poked into your eye protector doesn't prepare you for shit. You are used to not feeling that pain and having to adjust to it while fighting. Therefore, you will not be more prepared for an eye gouge AT ALL better than the MMA fighter. Your Wing Chun supremacist attitude is going to get your ass handed to you one of these days.
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Old 01-24-2013, 11:41 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Default Re: Wing Chun Attitude

Quote:
Originally Posted by LittleJimmy View Post
In response to lots of posts about Wing Chung being ineffective in MMA ring:

I've been in a Wing Chun School for 2 years now. I'm not an expert by any means. Our school doesn't do drills like lop sau or chi sau. We just train to fight, every class. We've had MMA guys float in and out of the school for some time. Most are looking for a magic bullet to add to their arsenal only to find that most of what we teach, they can't use. We literally have an MMA "Rules" list on the wall. Most of it is where we start teaching in regards to real fighting. Those rules are there to keep you from hurting someone badly. That's our whole purpose. A big part of it is attitude. MMA is a gladiator sport. It's not combat training. REPEAT, It's not combat training. They train to win in a controlled environment with a limited arsenal. They're there to make the promoters money. To do that, they have to be able to come back week after week and fight again. The purpose of our training in Wing Chun, at our school, is to make sure that YOU come back from a fight. Doesn't matter if the other guy is maimed, crippled, blinded, or dead. We deal with quick ways to put down a bigger, stronger opponent, without lots of effort. Save your strength, there may be more than one of them. We have a very short list of escalation. If he touches you, hurt him. If he hurts you, kill him. Concentrate on eyes, throat and groin. Use all of the weapons around you. We train with traditional weapons also, guns, knives, clubs, staff, just about every week. If you are really training for a street brawl where only one of you will go home, wouldn't you rather train with that goal in mind. I hear lots of MMA guys say they could step it up in a real fight but history shows, you fight like you train. We accept all challenges, any day of the week. We've had several wrestlers come in. You tell them, don't stop until sifu tells you it's over. Inevitably though, if they happen to get you pinned, a quick tap on their leg gets them to let go long enough for me to punch them in the face. Their training tells them to stop when the other guy submits. We don't stop until you're unconscious or dead. Boxers will stand there, weaving and bobbing, while you kick their knees or groin. They aren't used to protecting those areas. I hear it all of the time when MMA guys come in to challenge. We tell them "Our house, our rules. In our house there are no rules." Every one of them starts screaming "no fair, you can't do that!" as soon as you stick your thumb in their eye or kick their nuts. No one at our school is interested in tournaments, trophies, colored belts, or rankings. There are only 2 types, those that kick ass and those that get their asses kicked. Most of us are trying to get to the "kick ass" side of the line as quickly as possible. We gravitated to that kind of school because we only wanted to learn to fight. Not to compete, not to be ranked, just to be able to win a real "no holds barred" fight. MMA is fun to watch but I would rather be with a WC guy who knows what he's doing in a dark alley if we happen to get jumped. Then you can call your buddies to have a "hide the bodies" party afterwards. There are several other Wing Chun schools in this area. None of them are worth a damn because they don't emphasize the fighting. They work on drills and the form, day in, day out. It's too watered down. They're too worried about getting sued if someone gets hurt. We've had broken ribs, cracked eye socket, broken noses and several concussions since I've been there. We've had several students try to compete in tournaments but were quickly disqualified for excessive violence. We have a couple of "Black Belt" karate guys that have joined too. Most leave frustrated because we don't encourage many kicks. The ones that do stay, learn to keep their feet on the ground most of the time or they get thrown down hard, every time. They're too used to kicking to get points and don't realize how vulnerable it makes them. We don't allow pads or protective clothing, just mouth guards and eye protectors. Most of us don't even wear cups anymore. Teaches you to keep your crotch protected. When you're looking for a school, 1st question "Is this a combat school?" If they say "yes" ask for a list of rules. If there are any, RUN. Go find another school. Bottom line - decide what it is you want out of your training. Is it to compete and get trophies or is it to learn to handle any situation that comes up and know that you can protect yourself and your family. We don't care that we can't use a modified version of WC in the ring. Not our thing. We do sleep better at night knowing that we could take most anyone that tried to hurt us or our loved ones. Best of luck!

Stop. Just stop. You are completely wrong. So so wrong.

Wing Chun is NOT --I repeat-- NOT in any way, shape, or form meant to cause death or severe maiming. Frankly, your dojo ought to be shut down for what it's teaching to young feable minds.
Sure, Wing Chun can be used in that sense, but so can anything else. The martial art was developed for protection and peace.

You say you don't focus on stance and drills? I will tell you right now that with such an attitude, you will plateau early and end up getting your ass
H-A-N-D-E-D to you. Stance is the basis of EVERY single movement! I can't even stress that enough. Wing Chun without proper stance mastery is analogous of building a house on sand.

Please. Just go find a different martial. You're using WC for the worst reasons.
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Wing Chun Attitude

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