[Luther]

As I was looking through the threads on the weapons area I found a disturbing trend. People dont seem to realize what these weapons can do to someone. I would like to propose the creation of a sticky that outlines the damage of these weapons, complete with graphic pictures to prove the point. There are too many people thinking its ok to use these weapons on muggers and other similar people. They dont take into account that attacker will be ticked off and is even more likely to go for the kill.

Thank you for your consideration in this matter.

-Luther

[Toxic]

Uh, I was confused at what you meant at first. In the beginning of your post, I thought you meant about how people don't realize they're talking about murdering someone in graphic ways and talk about how weapons are dangerous in that fashion. But then at the end, you instead seem to favor the transitive danger, or people who don't know how to use weapons and therefore put themselves at risk.

For instance, when you say "There are too many people thinking its ok to use these weapons on muggers and other similar people" and although it may seem a little conservative of me, how is it NOT ok, granted that you're successful with it?

[Luther]

Originally Posted by Toxic

For instance, when you say "There are too many people thinking its ok to use these weapons on muggers and other similar people" and although it may seem a little conservative of me, how is it NOT ok, granted that you're successful with it?

This is exactly what Im talking about. You cant just stab someone because they want your money. You WILL go to jail. He wants money, give him the money. Is 50 bucks worth dieing for? Is 500?

For example you pull a knife and make a move on him. He gets out of the way and then pulls a knife on you (and 90% of the time they have one). You get carved up because you didnt want to give him your wallet/car/whatever.

The only time you should use a weapon is when either you or a loved one is in danger of death/rape/toture.

-Luther

[Toxic]

You automatically assume he's better than me with a knife. I had specifically said, "granted you're successful with it."

The question wasn't whether or not it was ok to risk your life, it was about the moral dilemma of killing someone who threatened your life and was willing to back that up.

[JollyRoger]

You WILL go to jail.

Are you from Europe? Most states in America allow the carrying of knives of a certain length, and use of one in self defense given the situation will much of the time prove in the victims favor.

Hell, there was a case recently in Baltimore of a college student who killed a robber who had broke into his house with a KATANA and he still didn't go to jail.

Also, first cardinal rule of knife conflicts: If you have a edged weapon, don't show it to your assailant. Wait and let him think you are unarmed until you need it. This way you'll know if he's a violent mugger, or someone who just wants your money and to run.


If you're going to carry a weapon, know how to use it. Be aware of local and state laws involving weapons.

I would like to propose the creation of a sticky that outlines the damage of these weapons, complete with graphic pictures to prove the point.

I'm against this idea, as, well, I hate graphic pictures of wounds and this will only go on to damage the reputation of this site rather than prove your point. People know that death and severe injury is a result of edged weapons. We're not stupid.

I also know more than anyone that giving into the demands of a threatening person with a knife (or any weapon) is always the best solution. But I'm not going to wait for a situation to become life threatening. As soon as I take injury or intent is shown to maim me, no matter how small, I will defend myself. Having a weapon of your own in these situations can much of the time diffuse a conflict as well without a single drop of blood. You have to remember, muggers want money, not a knife fight. The harder it seems to get what they want the more likely they'll leave you alone. There are other easier unarmed targets for them to pursue, not a person whose got a knife and willing to fight.

There are evil people out there. I've seen many news stories and morning papers of people beaten and stabbed to death after giving money/clothing/etc or even after not having anything at all to give since they are poor. What about these people?

I'm not going to hand out legal advice on the net, nor will I tell people it's better to have a weapon. But I live in a high crime rate area, and the Police are worthless for violent situations once it occurs, and you can't expect anyone to save you in time.

[Luther]

Originally Posted by JollyRoger

Are you from Europe? Most states in America allow the carrying of knives of a certain length, and use of one in self defense given the situation will much of the time prove in the victims favor.

Your profile says you are from Hawaii. The law there is:
"§134-51 Deadly weapons; prohibitions; penalty.
(a) Any person, not authorized by law, who carries
concealed upon the person's self or within any vehicle
used or occupied by the person or who is found armed
with any dirk, dagger, blackjack, slug shot, billy,
metal knuckles, pistol, or other deadly or dangerous
weapon shall be guilty of a misdemeanor and may be
immediately arrested without warrant by any sheriff,
police officer, or other officer or person. Any weapon,
above enumerated, upon conviction of the one carrying
or possessing it under this section, shall be summarily
destroyed by the chief of police or sheriff."

Im from Ohio and it has very similar laws. Guns only and only if you have a license.

Originally Posted by JollyRoger

Hell, there was a case recently in Baltimore of a college student who killed a robber who had broke into his house with a KATANA and he still didn't go to jail.

This is because of the federal "make my day clause" (I think thats what it is called.) I found that in "a majority of jurisdictions, a victim has the right to use non-deadly force in defense of his dwelling when, and to the extent that he reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to prevent or terminate another’s unlawful entry or attack upon his dwelling. Deadly force is authorized when violent entry is made or attempted and the victim reasonably believes that it is necessary to prevent an attack on his person. It is also authorized when the victim reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent entry into the dwelling by one who intends to commit a felony therein"

Originally Posted by JollyRoger

Also, first cardinal rule of knife conflicts: If you have a edged weapon, don't show it to your assailant. Wait and let him think you are unarmed until you need it. This way you'll know if he's a violent mugger, or someone who just wants your money and to run.

I agree. This is knife fighting 101.

Originally Posted by JollyRoger

I'm against this idea, as, well, I hate graphic pictures of wounds and this will only go on to damage the reputation of this site rather than prove your point. People know that death and severe injury is a result of edged weapons. We're not stupid.

I was not trying to say people were stupid, I was saying that perhaps people do not realise what a knife truly does to someone outside of hollywood. Im not sure how this would damage the repuation of the site, but if thats how you feel about it I am sure there are others.

Originally Posted by JollyRoger

You have to remember, muggers want money, not a knife fight. The harder it seems to get what they want the more likely they'll leave you alone. There are other easier unarmed targets for them to pursue, not a person whose got a knife and willing to fight.

There are evil people out there. I've seen many news stories and morning papers of people beaten and stabbed to death after giving money/clothing/etc or even after not having anything at all to give since they are poor. What about these people?

These two statements seem to contradict each other.

Originally Posted by Toxic

You automatically assume he's better than me with a knife. I had specifically said, "granted you're successful with it."

The question wasn't whether or not it was ok to risk your life, it was about the moral dilemma of killing someone who threatened your life and was willing to back that up.

Its fine to attack or even kill someone who wants to do the same, but not if its some poor guy just going around trying to get some cash by less than moral means.


Perhaps my message has been mis-read. I am not against carring a weapon. I carry a knife. It is illegal for me to do so, but I have been stabbed, hit with a bat, and been mugged twice. I want to have the 'edge' if I need it. The idea of the thread was to show that if you decide to carry a knife, know the risks and the laws on when and where you can use it.

[Luther]

Due to a certain discussion elsewhere on the forum I feel the need to put up my credentials in more than just words.



That is a wound I recevied from a small swiss-army style knife. Even though the blade was thin the wound was more than an inch wide. It sunk in right around 1/3 to 1/2 an inch. The pen is there to show the area better. Without it just looked like a pinkish-red area.



And that is a certain Guro Inostanto and I.

Although I am far from a master or instructor, I know how to use the deadly weapons that you will often find on the street. Im not bragging, I just want people to know that I am at not making stuff up.

-Luther

[Toxic]

I didn't doubt that you were trained on weapon work, most who want to focus on that in a fight discussion are. I train in similar arts so I understood where you were coming from. There is a shame that too many kids today try to use a knife like it's a movie. Whip it out and hope it intimidates, when in reality it only triggers a stronger chemical response in the enemy. Anyone who actually knows how to use a knife won't pull it out til a split second before they use it. That's why knife attacks are so dangerous cuz its usually not even the guy you think is gonna do it. One popular way to get stabbed is one guy runs up and his entire job is to grapple you. He gets in your face and grabs your waist or arms or legs and his buddy stabs you and they break out.
I carry a knife too, though rarely, but I was trained with it same as you. So I don't have too much of the mentality that "If I pull this out, I endanger myself." But it doesn't mean other people shouldn't think that.

And I'm sorry if I disagree on the moral (and I state that it is moral so it's not like a formal debate will change any opinions) but the second even a homeless bum decides to threaten force on me for cash. Even if that 20 dollars I have in my pocket could last his lifestyle a year, while I'll probably waste it on a dvd, he made the wrong choice in my mind and if he threatens someone, he has to be prepared to face consequence for that choice. I don't ask muggers their life story so I may judge whether I should attempt to defend myself. With my style of using a knife, it wouldn't be an automatic "Hey give me your cash" *stab* With a person like myself or you, who carry knives and use the attack right off the draw, someone would have to be close enough, likely already attacking, before the knife could be used.
So like I said, the guy who threatens force and demonstrates that he's willing to back that up, I have no moral qualms about attacking, and the law will usually rest with me on that. (differing state to state) I don't know if our laws are any different, but I've actually asked police officers around me and they say the law is "a concealed blade under 4 inches" which I think they're giving more or less as a rule of thumb than an actual state legislation or something

[Luther]

Alright I suppose morals are morals and like you said debate wont change that. Im going to try to get myself back on track real quick...

Does ANYONE think that it might be a good idea to have a sticky in the weapons forum that outlines the dangers of weapons and how un-hollywood they are. I just dont want any kids reading in the forum then thinking its okay to try and take a person with a weapon.

-Luther

[Toxic]

As much as I agree, the feel I get from a lot of people who pop in here is that they won't really listen.

I had gotten into an argument a while ago with someone here about the accuracy of a certain stat. Something along the lines of "65% of people who pull a knife in a fight get it used on them" and I didn't believe it at all, but as it turns out, that's fairly accurate. And it's because of people who carry that mentality and don't train on anything they know how to use. And although a sticky would help fight that for those who read, it's focused on training, which is something a lot of the storyteller kids on here don't really have sometimes. I get the feel of people who like to come on and talk about how they haymakered until they knocked out a kid in school they didn't like.

But all in all, just because I feel like something might not significantly help, it doesn't mean there's no reason to do it.
I'm all for a sticky where people can discuss weapon danger of any sort